Sat 16 Dec 2006 - EDI WAS TO PROVIDE PRESCRIBED FORMATS NOT AMBIGUITY
The UN/CEFACT Mission Statement

1. 	The United Nations, through its Centre for Trade Facilitation and 
	Electronic Business (UN/CEFACT), supports activities dedicated to 
	improving the ability of business, trade and administrative 
	organizations, from developed, developing and transitional economies, 
	to exchange products and relevant services effectively.
 
Please submit your comments by 17:00 Wed 20 Dec 2006 to Stephen GOULD

10:42 Sat 16 Dec '06				REF:IXUAEN1

TO:	David RR WEBBER		cc	Federal & State Politicans
	Co-ordinator			UBL XML Interest Group
	UBL XML DEVELOPMENT INTEREST GROUP

David - Thanks for your response - I appreciate the whole point of
EDI was to provide prescribed formats and not allow flexibility.

Which is why you have to understand the Politics behind EDI and 
why it was driven in Australia by the Banking Industry Association
ref EDI/11 meetings 1988

The Politics is extremely important because Australia is the only
Country which has passed legislation call the Electronic Transaction
Acts both at Federal and State Level as part of the "Information
Economy"

This mean the Government receives "eTax" for each electronic 
Transaction hence the Government has a great interest in inefficient
messaging systems with confusing Standards and sending large files
eg PDF files on Government tenders

Australia has been the development site for EDI since 1987 with
18 out of the 99 UN/EDI Rapporters based in Australia
Ref Paula SWATMAN EDI Council of Australia Aug 1992 - THIS EMAIL STATES
"THE ANSI-X12 FORMATS ARE COMPLETE WHILE THE EDIFACT GUIDELINES
ARE STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT" - 5 YRS AFTER EDIFACT PUBLISHED

And two Australian at the top of the Customs Co-operation Council
[CCC] in Brussels for 5 years - one as the Secretary General 
and one as the Head of Administration while Customs world-wide 
were implementing Electronic Commerce from 1992 - 1997

There a number of other issues which is why a group of consultants 
formed the OIC XML CEFACT Work Gp for two major EDI projects in 
Australia that stipulate the use of UN/CEFACT and AS 4590
- one with the Ports and one with 32 Local Councils

NEXT STEPS

We are trying to resolve these issues through UN/CEFACT

However we need the support from the rest of the EDI Community 
to make sure that single XML standards are created and more 
important enforced by groups like the XML developers and UBL 
developers eCommunity groups

Regards

Stephen GOULD
on behalf of the Management and IT Consultants 
HALISA INTERNATIONAL NETWORK

On 14 Dec 06, at 8:27, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:

> Stephen,   
> 
> Have you looked at creating a profile for NAD using OASIS CIQ?  
> Remember the whole point of EDI was to perscribe - not allow
> flexibility!!! Even the UPU acknowledges that accelerating
> computerization and modern mail volumes has resulted in reduced options
> and dependency on uni-formats.  E.g. I used to be able to address
> something to - 'Third house on the left, pass the Lamb and Flag, with
> the pink shutters and red front door, Henlade, Somerset, England'.  
> Now that comes back as 'No Post Code - address unknown' ; -)
> 
> I did forward your original message to Ram Kumar - he is in Sydney - and
> I'm sure would be happy to assist further.   
> 
> DW
> 
> "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
>  
> 
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [ubl-dev] Time to review Edifact NAD format ?
> From: "Stephen GOULD" 
> Date: Thu, December 14, 2006 6:51 pm
> To: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
> 
> EDI is proving to be a disaster around the world mainly because the
> Standards were formulated over 20 years ago with the driving force being
> to reduce Purchasing costs not facilitate Trade 
> 
> EDIFACT was first release in 1987 and the format has not been 
> revised hence the normal business problem of unclear instruction
> results in mayhem.
> 
> There are two address formats in the NAD Data Segment without 
> any directions to stipulate when each format should be used
> 
> With the advent of XML and the Internet perhaps it is time to have very 
> clear instructions when to use each format or just reduce it to one 
> format only
> 
> A TECHNICAL PROBLEM WITH MULTIPLE ADDRESS FORMATS
> 
> The OIC Expert IT eCommittee formed to resolve the single XML address
> for ASA 4590 has initially confirmed that the Complex version can
> replace
> the Simplex version to establish a single XML Address format
> 
> It now appears that UN/CEFACT (EDIFACT) has the same problem with 
> different options in the Name and Address (NAD) Data Segment for each
> Trade Document 
> 
> Whilst I appreciate you will not have reviewed the details of the data 
> elements and data components of UN/CEFACT, here is a link to the 
> "NAD" Data Segments and three eTrade documents downloaded from the 
> Australia TradeGate Importer/Exporter Web Site
> 
> As you can see there will be much confusion as to whether software 
> developers should use Data Element CO58 or CO80 and CO59.
> 
> However the main problem is that software will have to be written
> to check which whether "CO58 has been used" or whether "CO80 has 
> been used thru to 3207"
> 
> B PORT OF MELBOURNE EOI 13110
> 
> The Government Responses to Questions to the Port of Melbourne 
> eCommunity PoMC EOI 13110 indicates  there is much confusion from 
> Government responses on the use of Ecommerce Standards
>
> It is appropriate UN/CEFACT to clarify the issues prior to the RFT being
> published as EOI 13110 states all importers and exporters must use 
> EDIFACT.
> 
> C UN/CEFACT SUPPORT FOR TRADE FACILITATION
> 
> The Mission Statement of UN/CEFACT states it "supports activities 
> dedicated to improving the ability of business, trade and administrative
> organizations, from developed, developing and transitional economies, 
> to exchange products and relevant services effectively"
> 
> In Sep 2004 you and I reviewed your draft eCommerce Trade Strategy
> for the Asia Pacific Region
> 
> On reviewing that Strategy again, I believe the key issue for Trade
> Facilitation is the single address format within the "NAD" Data Segment 
> for all eTrade Documents.
> 
> Hence I believe the recommendations on the AS 4590 Standard will be
> pertinent to UN/CEFACT.
> 
> D	NEXT STEPS
> 
> What do you think ?
>