Wed 29 Nov 2006 - EASYBIZ PROJECT MANAGER'S "NO INTEREST" RESPONSE TO AS 4590 PROBLEM
THIS EMAIL RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED 2 HRS AFTER "THE EXTREMELY LENGTHY REPLY" WAS SENT Subject: RE: Trevor - EXACTLY - why Legislation needed ! Date sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:19:16 +1100 NOTE DATE 1 - Our Computers are correct, is it the ISP ? From: "Pyman, Trevor \(SKM\)"
To: Stephen, Thank you for your extremely lengthy reply. 1. The EasyBiz project will use whatever standards produce the best result for our stakeholders. 2. Your email will be considered by SKM Consultants. 3. We have no interest in participating in your proposed eCommittee. Regards, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: Stephen GOULD [mailto:email@example.com] Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 12:52 AM NOTE DATE 2 - Our Computers are correct, is it the ISP ? To: Trevor PYMAN Cc: Standards Australia; OASIS 2006 Attendees; eConsultants Subject: Trevor - EXACTLY - why Legislation needed ! 07:42 Wed 29 Nov 2006 REF:JSKAACN2 Y/R: AS 4590 TO: Trevor PYMAN cc Members of Parliament Project Manager - Easybiz EasyBiz Councils SINCLAIR KNIGHT MERZ Interested Parties Thank you for your response 15:06 Tue 28 Nov 2006 which confirms why Legislation is needed. As time is running out to confirm the single XML AS 4590 Address for the Council Vendor Integration project your response to this email would appreciated by 17:00 Fri 01 Dec 2006. Your response, as the Project Manager for this project which will be of interest to all Australian Councils, highlights the fact that most, if not all, the Management involved with Electronic Commerce in Australia, do not understand the problems. That is why eCommerce systems like the Ports Tradegate and Ports systems around Australia have been a disaster for the last 15 years. And why I was the only person invited to give evidence on Chapter 15: Government Procurement and Chapter 16: Electronic Commerce to the Senate Inquiry into the Australian-USA Free Trade Agreement I am providing a detailed response that includes my own experiences with complex eCommerce applications because this is a very, very important issue for every Council and its Rate-payers A Response confirms why legislation needed B Specific concerns in relation to AS 4590 C Why BizDex Hub cannot work for Councils D Dec 2006 clarifying AS 4590 Standard not different standard E Next Steps A RESPONSE CONCERNS WHY LEGISLATION NEEDED Your response confirms that is why legislation is needed because the people who make money from writing IT code and charging for ongoing IT services have a vested interest in leaving the current AS 4590 Standard as it is currently published > Advice from our developers and the software vendors who supply > systems to EasyBiz councils is that they have no problem with > the schema as it stands. This is why my paper to the OASIS XML Conference stated that the Computer Industry is "at times grossly irresponsible and ignores its Social obligations" An illustration of the Computer Industry irresponsibility is the Speech given by Robert ZOELLICK US Trade Minister 2004/05/25 to the US Electronic Industry Alliance [EIA] one week after the US had signed the Free Trade Agreement with Australia [Aus-USA FTA]. In that Speech Ambassador ZOELLICK states "4 We’re securing provisions on technology neutrality, a very important element for a competitive economy like ours and commitments to use open and voluntary technological standards to promote the competitiveness of U.S. business" "Open and Voluntary Technological Standards !!!!" The rest of the World may be trying to adopt the UN/EDIFACT code on a Voluntary basis. However EIA had lobbied for the US Federal Government to pass legislation that the US Federal Government legislate that all US Government Agencies must use the US ANSI-X12 Standard. This was confirmed by our contacts in the US that the US had legislated that the US eCommerce Standard is used by Government Agencies and not the International eCommerce Standard Yet the US Trade Ambassador states that the US uses "Open and Voluntary Standards" and does not inform its most loyal ally of the legislation during the Aus-USA FTA negotiations. Ambassador ZOELLICK has now joined Goldman Sachs Merchant Bank almost similar to the way Bob CARR ex-NSW Premier is retained as a part-time consultant on $ 500,000/year by Macquarie Bank The Prime Minister John HOWARD and Trade Minister Mark VAILE may have been "set up" by the Aus-USA FTA B SPECIFIC CONCERNS WITH AS 4590 > Please advise of your specific concerns in relation to the AS4590 > National Name and Address XML Schema with AGIMO as they > are the responsible entity for the publication of this schema. The Specific concerns with AS 4590 have been detailed on this web-page which has been sent to you three times before and placed on the web site rather than a pdf file as a reference point There are two XML Address formats in AS 4590 with no indication as to which format should be used 1 AS4590 Address 2 AS4590 Complex This means 1 The software developers will chose one or the other 2 Software has to be developed by the Hub to check which address standard is used each time a message is sent 3 A charge for this service has to be paid by the client for each message to be checked Please review The Object of each Electronic Transaction Act passed by the Commonwealth and State Governments The problem we Tax and Rate-payers have with AGIMO is that the Federal and State Governments have a vested interest from the Electronic Transaction Acts for "encouraging" as many electronic transactions as possible Hence this is why everyone is "encouraged" to sms and email the radio and TV shows. In 1989 I attended a one week Conference in Brussels where we were informed that the plans were in 2015 there would be no telephone charges. When I asked who had made those plans everyone around me started to laugh. However in 1991 while I was in Brussels speaking with the two Australian who were at the head of the Customs Co-operation Council for 5 years I learned Australia was going to receive funds from Europe to set up eCommerce projects. In 1994 it was confirmed that Australia would indeed receive funding from Europe This was the funding for the Hawke-Keating "Networking the Nation" Strategy which is still being funded today C WHY BIZDEX HUB CANNOT WORK FOR COUNCILS I can appreciate that the Australian Wheat Board [AWB] Bizdex Hub as a single Desk is an excellent way for the farmers to send their invoices and receive payment for the wheat exported. However there are a number of reasons why it cannot work in the applications defined for the Councils. One on the major problems for eCommerce is that each organisation has its own reference numbering system. So each of the Councils will have a different reference number system for each of the 25 applications. Bizdex will also have to have its own reference number for the electronic message to each Council. In 1989 I was working on the Eurofighter eCommerce project in Munich with the European Aerospace Association [AECMA] The problem for Eurofighter was that it was an aircraft that had different parts built in different Countries so language and time zones were also part of the problem. In 1992 I was working with a software house in Salford University called 3S on the Eurofighter project when they received a number of emails on the problems with each business having different Reference numbers Paula SWATMAN of the EDI Council of Australia [EDICA] provided a response that did not address the problem At that time EDICA was recognised as the world leading organisation in EDI with 19 out of the 99 World Rapporteurs based in Australia. Michael BAKER the CEO of EDICA was the Chairman of the Standard Australia EDI IS/11 Committee In 1989 Michael BAKER was the MC for a US Conference and EIDCA provided many of the speakers for the US EDI Conference in Los Angeles The Software House 3S also provided a response about how the RUBAC Electronic Information Management could address the problem While Bizdex is looking after the permits and council applications some councils have outsourced their tenders to other Hubs. An example is Geelong which uses the Tenderlink Hub. Geelong have one reference code for the tender and Tenderlink have another reference code. The problems will be when the Councils want to move to Tender/ Contract Management Systems In 2004 the Western Australia Department of Housing published a tender for a Tender/Contract Management System On Sat 25 Nov 2006 Boroondara Council issued a tender for a Contract Management System Councils may be required to move to Contract Management Systems as part of the their Economic Development, Tourism, Waste Management, Recreation and Volunteer Management Strategies. Hence the importance to have a single XML Address format so we can enable each Council to have the right XML Framework from the start D DEC 2006 TO CONFIRM SINGLE ADDRESS FORMAT The Action and timetable proposed to Philip Argy President of the Australian Computer Society is that Dec 2006 is we clarify a single XML Address format for AS 4590. It is not proposing an alternative standard E NEXT STEPS In the meantime now the issues have been explained to you in detail will you confirm that: 1 You as the Easybiz System Integration Project Manager will instruct all Software Houses and Councils to use the AS4590 Complex Address 2 You will explain the issue to other SKM Management and Consultants 3 you may reconsider participating in the proposed eCommittee to increase your own knowledge on eCommerce if the current AS 4590 Standard conforms with the International Standard I would appreciate your response by 17:00 Fri 01 Dec 2006 Thank you Yours sincerely Stephen GOULD Chair XML & eCommerce Committee OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM 12:01 W 2006/11/28 Syd 2065 E: firstname.lastname@example.org M: 0416-009-468 W: OIC Events on XML & eCommerce - 2000-2006 On 28 Nov 06, at 15:06, Pyman, Trevor (SKM) wrote: > Please advise of your specific concerns in relation to the AS4590 > National Name and Address XML Schema with AGIMO as they are the > responsible entity for the publication of this schema. The many emails > you have sent on this matter contain vague inferences to a problem but > no specifics of the actual problem or its impact. > > Advice from our developers and the software vendors who supply systems > to EasyBiz councils is that they have no problem with the schema as it > stands. > > We are simply adopting the national standard. We are not interested in > your suggestion of working on a competing standard. > > > Cheers, > TP > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Friday, 24 November 2006 7:55 PM > To: Trevor PYMAN; Sinclair Knight Merz; EasyBiz-PDMG > Cc: EasyBiz-Members; Northern Beaches Sport; HIN; eConsultants > Subject: Trevor - please confirm SKM advice to Easybiz Councils > > 08:29 Fri 24 Nov 2006 REF:JSKAACN1 > > Y/R: AS 4590 > TO: Trevor PYMAN cc EasyBiz Councils > Project Manager - Easybiz Members of Parliament > SINCLAIR KNIGHT MERZ > > Trevor - further to my recent emails to the Easybiz members and > SKM on the two XML Address formats within AS 4590 this email is > to ask you to confirm what advice you are giving to the Council > Members and the Company awarded the Council Integration project > on which XML Address format to use. > > I have proposed to Philip ARGY President of the Australian Computer > Society a time table to confirm a single XML Address format during > Dec 2006 > > In the meantime > > > As the Victorian 32 Local Government Consortium has a very > > clearly defined timetable I am proposing that, as an interim step, > > the Sinclair Knight Merz [SKM] Consultant for that project advise > > the Councils and whoever was awarded the Contract that the > > Complex Address of AS 4590 is always used for all transactions > > NEXT STEPS > > Please confirm > > 1 if you are prepared to advise involved EasyBiz Parties to use > the Complex AS 4590 XML Address version as a interim step > > 2 if you would be able to participate in the proposed eCommittee > to define a single XML Address format > > Thank you > > regards > > Stephen GOULD > Chair > XML & Ecommerce Special Interest Group > OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM > > E: email@example.com > M: 0418-009-468 > W: http://www.oic.org/z/LZIG > > 12:06 Fri 29 Sep 2006 REF:61C1BAN1 > Y/R: Contract No. CT060742 > TO: Neil HOCKING cc EasyBiz Mayors > Chair - EasyBiz Consortium EasyBiz Interests > VICTORIAN 32 COUNCIL CONSORTIUM > > Dear Chairman > > This email is to explain there will be a permanent on-going costs for > Councils involved with the EasyBiz Vendor Integration project as the > XML Structure is currently defined. > > Although the Specification includes reference to AS4590 the format > of the Property Contact details is not in AS4590 format. > > There are 2 main areras where AS4590 is not followed: > > 1 The Address format of the Property Details > > 2 The Telephone and Fax format of the Property and > Contact Details > > The objectives of the Tender and the details of those flaws in the > AS4590 Vendor Integration can be reviewed here > > This will provide a long-term on going cost for Councils and > also a perptual cost for Home and Small businesses that > wish to link electronically to other Government Enterprises that > use AS4590. > > In addition AS4590 suffers from the same problem as UN/EDIFACT > the International Standard in that the address details are ambiguous > > This has led to the many problems surrounding the rapid acceptance and > implementation of eCommerce. > > LEGISLATION MAY BE REQUIRED > > As I have said before at times the CIT Industry is grossly irresponsible > and ignores its Social Obligations in the pursuit of long term revenue > > This is a very important issues as EasyBiz and BizDex objectives are > to develop an application that all Councils will adopt. > > Possibly Australia has to consider Legislation similar to the Law > that the US Federal Government passed in1996 to ensure all US > Government Agencies used ANSI-X12 > > NEXT STEPS > > Please confirm if EasyBiz is to adopt: > > 1 the Complex Address from of AS4590 for all Contact Addresses > > 2 The telephone and fax structure of AS4590 for all communications > > Your members may wish to attend the OASIS XML Open Standard > Conference on 25-27 Oct to understand more of the issues invvolved > with effective Council IT Systems. > > The OIC has negotiated a special fee for Local Governmeent Agencies to > attend this Conference > > Yours faithfully > > Stephen GOULD > Chair > Local Government & XML Special Interest Group > OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM > > E: firstname.lastname@example.org > M: 0416-009-468