07:43 Wed 15 Sep 2004					REF:1UCACBR2

TO:	Duane NICKULL				cc	Halisa Consultants
	Vice-Chair UN/CEFACT				OIC Management Committee

Duane - this is the second e-mail {R2}  to provide some background for a proposal to provide 
relevant UNeDocs support for  Slide 28 and Slide 30 of the draft UN/CEFACT Vision 

These e-mails are now placed on the following web page to facilitate links to supporting 

>Thank you for the Draft PPT which I have reviewed and add some
>comments in R3
>Rather than respond in one lengthy e-mail I thought it may be useful
>to include the thoughts and findings of many of my colleagues for your 
>consideration hence the response is in 3 separate e-mails:

R1 - What is the Problem ?

R2 - The UN and Ports -  THIS E-MAIL

R3 - the UN/CEFACT slides


In 1976 the 'United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and
the Pacific' commissioned the PORT Management Information System 
[PORTMIS] to enable Asian and Pacific countries to implement Port 
EDI Systems

However John RAVEN the facilitation adviser to the International Association
of Ports and Harbours (IPAH) provide a report that stated: 

"current EDI practices are temporary relief which plaster twentieth 
century techniques over nineteenth century procedures and enforce
the employment of very expensive Value Added Network Suppliers"  

Ref: Peter BROWN Executive Director Australian Association of Port 
and Marine Authorities letter 14 Jan 1988

This is the real issue of a total review of the Business Process re-engineering for 
Trade Facilitation.


IPAH has categorised its members into 3 regions

3 Regions:	Total - 231

A	Africa/Europe		105
	1	Scandinavia		13
	2	Europe			65 - 23 UK Ports
	3	Africa			27

	Associate Members	51

B	North & South America		32
	1	North America		24
	2	South America	 	8

	Associate Members		17

C	Asia/Oceania		94
	1	Australia		12
	2	Indonesia Area		17
	3	Japan			27
	4	China/Korea		23
	5	India/Middle East	15

	Associate Members		40

There are 231 Port lists as full members.  There are 108 listed Associates

EDI AND EUROPE 1988-1992

In Jun 1987 I attend my first EDI Conference in San Francisco "Input '87".

In Sep 1987 the Yankee Group were commissioned by the Government to produce a Report 
"EDI in Australia".  

This report stated that the RUBAC Information Management Methodology was "Way beyond EDI"

In Feb 1988 I attend Compat'88 in the Hague.  At this conference I met with:

1	Alain BELLEGO Head United Nations Trade Facilitation	

2	Emile PEETERS Head DGXIII in the European Community
3	Maurice WALKER Head of EDIFACT Board and European 
	Customs Harmonised System implementations

As a result of discussions with a number of speakers at that conference
a series of presentations were set up in Austrade in London.  These 
presentations resulted in over 15 letters of support for the RUBAC 
concept including letters from

1	UK Customs
	Douglas TWEDDLE - Head Customs Directorate
2	UK Simpler Trade Procedures
3	Lloyds London Press
	Dr Elizabeth MULLER Executive Director
4	UK Article Number Association [ANA]
	Nigel FENTON Secretary
5	Maritime Cargo Processing - Felixstow

John HAMMOND was one of the very few people who appreciated that the RUBAC Information 
Management methodology would "automatically communicate and file electronic information"


I come back again the the report by John RAVEN to the IPAH that

"current EDI practices are temporary relief which plaster twentieth century techniques over 
nineteenth century procedures and enforce the employment of very expensive Value Added 
Network Suppliers"  

This is re-inforced by the e-mails received this week that confirm that, although an 
Australian Value Added Network Service [VANS] has received two Federal Government Grants 
in the last 5 years, EDI in the Ports has not progressed any further than 1988.

UN/CEFACT is probably an appropriate body to commission a business provess review of Port 
Information flows to ensure that the Ports have 21st century procedures in place for EDI.

This may be particularly important for the Asia and Pacific Ports that do not have the 
necessary skills available locally for the sophisticated Import/Export process developed 
in the European/US ports.


Duane  - This e-mail is to outline how the Ports/Airlines are really the 
start of the E-business process for any country.

Up to now, as the e-mails from various EDI Port operatives and Port users (eg Ben ANSON - 
Sydney Ports Corporation Nov 2003) have confirmed, E-commerce is not operating to the 
satisfaction of any of the parties involved.

Would UN/CEFACT be in a position to provide funding for a prototype project for the
Ports/Airports using the RUBAC Information Management Methodology ?


Stephen GOULD
Partner e-Projects
19:22 W 2004/09/15 Syd 2089 - please note this for R3

E:	sggould@halisa.net
W:	SGG Expertise in Ecommerce 

On 10 Sep 04, at 9:42, Duane Nickull wrote:

> Stephen:
> I think that the UN is better equipped to deal with this issue.  I have 
> been working with UN/CEFACT for a while and recently got elected as vice 
> chair.  Attached is a "DRAFT" PPT explaining our vision to level the 
> playing field for international trade (bridging the gap between the rich 
> and the poor).  Please note that this is draft and should not be 
> distributed.
> WRT one XML language, I respectfully submit that is flawed logic. 
>  Einstein once said "When solving a problem, you must use different 
> thinking than you did when you created the problem".  The problem is 
> that every single standard to date was designed with the notion that the 
> entire world should use one standard.  ebXML was and is still the only 
> infrastructure that is built on a premise that one standard for business 
> transactions will never work.  We built an infrastructure that can 
> facilitate interoperability upon multiple XML and non XML languages. 
> The mechanism is core components (currently being worked on in UN/CEFACT).
> I believe CC's hold the key.
> Duane

Revised: S: 07:03 Sat 29/12/2001 Syd 2089
F: 07:32 Sat 29/12/2001 Syd 2089
Who: sgg
Authorised: sgg
Created: 09:45 Tue 13/06/2000 Syd 2065
By: kmb
Revision: 3a4h1.002
Original Page: 3a4h
Change date: